Fall of an ally prince

''The city has a Toreador prince who is losing popularity. He's been a long-time trusted ally of yours, and has traditionally supported clan Ventrue's interests. If you threw your full weight behind him, you could probably keep him in power. If you pulled your support, you would likely be able to name his successor (either you, another Ventrue, or someone else entirely.)  He would take it as a personal betrayal considering he has helped you in the past, but probably would not be able to pose a political problem for you.''

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** Ashton

My character would take into consideration how many boons he (or the other Ventrue) have on this particular Toreador vs who else has boons on them and at what level. Once he's factored that, he would consult with his Sire (or whoever he was reporting to at that time) and discuss pros and cons of having them removed vs keeping them there.

If the gains outweighed the cost, Ashton would definitely throw his support behind the Toreador, while hopefully garnering an extra boon or two from collecting others to support them and regain their popularity.

** Katrijn De Vos

I think it'd depend on how useful he was. If his usefulness looked like it was coming to an end, I'd drop him. However, if he was likely to be useful in future, I'd go talk to him, and try to convince him to step down first, so I didn't have to pull my support. Try and keep the guy on side and in line for another useful position while not outright betraying him.

** Maryam

My character would attempt to discuss the situation with the Toreador, and endeavor to convince him that his fall was inevitable, even with my support, he would eventually fall. My character would offer to have him give input into who his successor would be, and try to arrange for an honorable transition of power, ideally with the Toreador taking a court office that is of interest to him. She might step forward as prince herself, or place someone else in the position. It would depend on whether she trusted someone else to be as competent as she was, and who she trusted to assure Ventrue interests were protected.

** William Leander

Play the long game, predict where the ripples might rock other boats, dispassionately weigh all the possibilities based on how they'll affect the House's core interests, decide on where the most profit lies, follow through on that decision with no mercy and no regrets.

Pursue damage mitigation with the Toreador if the decision is to remove him from praxis - nothing is forever and he might be back on top again some day. If he is a practical man explain that it was just business and try to offer him something that will lessen his feeling of betrayal. If he is vain offer him something that will let him save face. If he is vengeful direct that vengeance toward another target. Always try to lessen costs and invest in future relationships.

** Charles Yea

Yea would tend to look to what his elders in the family were doing at the moment, and even if he disagreed, would support them fully.

Assuming Yea was the ranking member of the family he would be inclined to take steps to convince the Toreador to leave power peacefully, and see the ally properly paid off for their co-operation. That the ally was in this position at all indicates that they probably need some time to regroup.

If the ally is determined to let their weakness turn them into an enemy Yea would work to ensure that one of the Family was in power, and that the momentary weakness of the former ally was grown.

In selecting a replacement Yea would focus on someone the family can rely on, and who won't need constant help. A prince we prop up but do not completely control is a liability not an asset. A prince who has control in most cases and needs occasional quite help in a crisis is someone who will owe us boons.

** Kieren Thomas

It is always better to have an individual-- especially a prince --in debt to you.

* Arnvald Torstein

Along with the others I would look into the future to help me decide. If he is losing favor and we can place someone we want in the position then I would tell my FRIEND that the city would be better suited by his departure from the position instead of a conflict. I would use this to help get someone of good favor into the position and request that the former prince be shown respect for his time and services. Maybe give him a position within the new administration and broker the deal. Try to keep all parties happy. and save face while avoiding bloodshed.

** Tony Korinthos

No sense in helping someone who can't help themselves. If the dip in the polls seemed temporary, no sense in rocking the boat. Shore up his support and be seen as loyal. Collect the benefits of faith. If he seemed like he could support his own power, remove him and put someone in charge who could; ideally someone who can't grant the territories we want to control. As for the deposed Prince; well, it's bad policy to leave loose ends. ave some boys take him somewhere safe for the day and make sure he never returns.

** Galanan Deireanach

We must support our allies. Openly. At least it will show that this Toreador has friends and should not be trifled with. At best, they will see this ally as a pawn of the Ventrue, but one that can not be easily toppled. No matter what, we have what we want. Stick with what we know for now until this ally gives us a reason to remove support.

** Gunnvaldr Graysson

A scorned ally is a bitter enemy.

Support the ally. Better to try and lose than to have someone who could potentially stab you in the back later.

** Seamus O'Reilly

He's a reliable ally that will owe us further if we support it. Direct Support is risky though, I recommend using back channels and proxies to aid them. If collusion is discovered it might make them lose more face after all. While I care not for Camarilla politics an ally is an ally and it's better to have one in power than out of it, the more someone is in your pocket the more you can keep them there.

** Phillipe Marchand

I would use what soft power I could to keep the Prince in place. I would attempt to do so without dirtying my hands if possible. I would do a lot of this through intermediaries and childer. If keeping the Prince in power was impossible he would negotiate to have one of his childer take the Prince's place and give the former Prince a prime role.

** Atreus

Support the Toreador, with just enough so as to seem to be throwing your full weight into it, provided this seems to be a winning cause. If not, swing the other way and appoint a successor, perhaps helping the Toreador save face with a position in the court. It is important to support your allies, unless it isn't economical to do so. It must be weighed carefully. (And really a lot more context is needed to make an official decision).

** Gareth Day

A vengeful Toreador will cause problems in the long-term. If I judge the praxis can be salvaged, I will work with the Toreador Prince to identify what is causing the loss of popularity and address it. While boons can help prop up a praxis temporarily, there must be substantive changes in the way the Toreador Prince operates: create popular domain-level initiatives, reward status to those who have been working hard (particularly potential claimants to the throne, as they will lose the status if the Prince is removed), assign negative status to those who are widely seen to be causing problems, and amplify the image of a connected Prince by publicizing the Toreador Prince's meetings with important kindred outside the domain.

If the praxis cannot be salvaged, I will look for ways to "promote out." If the Prince can be set up to have a social class-appropriate position in the Camarilla (e.g. Archon), I will work to arrange it. If not, I will try to turn them towards Clan-based endeavors, such as starting a guild or advancing rank in an existing one. Barring these options, I will discuss all the problems with the praxis in a gentle manner and try to lead the Toreador to drawing their own conclusion that they should step down and salvage both face and political capital.

If the praxis cannot be salvaged and the Toreador refuses to be helped, I will let them fail as long as it would not cause additional complications. If complications will be caused, I will start prepping someone to take over the praxis with a dire warning for the Toreador.